3. Sharpe, does your way of combat work for multiple opponents?
It can, but it wouldn't be the "right way." The big divide between the code in my example RPG and the unreleased full version is the use of arrays.
The full version of my RPG (in addition to sound effects, music, and commissioned artwork) makes heavy use of arrays both for inventory and monster/player turn sequence. However, while "mishandling" objects, I also was unintentionally exploiting a bug in 1.4.1 Sugarcane that allowed my code to seem to work in all tests, but was in some fashion broken. When I upgraded to SugarCube, my inventory and turn sequence arrays no longer worked at all. When 1.4.2 arrives, that code will no longer work there either, so there's no going back even if I wanted to do so.
The complexities of properly handling objects in arrays well enough to use for inventory and turn sequences isn't simple. TheMadExile, a programmer whose experienced eye found the issue in my code, has agreed to help me make the transition to JavaScript to pick up the broken pieces and rebuild my game. We've not yet began.
Okay, so check this out. I'm working on a navigation option for the RPG as well. This is just sample file for me to work on the direction arrow stuff. I sort of have it looking decent though I can't get it to use the style sheet setting. I'm probably missing something with that.
That said - whats the best way to assign passage navigation to these buttons? Do I need to make a new Direction passage for each page and call it every time?
I commend the amazing effort and ingenuity being used by people to create this and other RPG engines using Twine.
Especially as the tool you are using is at its basic level a text based interactive fiction engine with no inherent knowledge or support for the types of thing commonly found within RPG, namely Actors, Location, Navigation, Inventory, Combat and Stats.
Because RPG's generally entail visiting the same locations multiple times and killing the same monsters over and over (aka Grinding), I was wondering if the way the current Story Formats handle history (both story path taken and variable values) will cause a potential problem as the storage of this data (both in memory and on disk) gets larger and large the longer the player plays the RPG.
I was also wondering if your efforts would be better spent making a new Story Format that natively understood the different things needed/required to create RPGs.
Because RPG's generally entail visiting the same locations multiple times and killing the same monsters over and over (aka Grinding), I was wondering if the way the current Story Formats handle history (both story path taken and variable values) will cause a potential problem as the storage of this data (both in memory and on disk) gets larger and large the longer the player plays the RPG.
In theory, it could. In practice, it's probably unlikely to cause issues. If a particular game did run into trouble, disabling the history should solve the issue.
greyelf wrote:
I was also wondering if your efforts would be better spent making a new Story Format that natively understood the different things needed/required to create RPGs.
I think that's probably a given. For any, let's say, non-standard use of Twine, having a story format focused on the particulars of that use case would probably be beneficial to it.
Good point. Adding framing and structure and an out of the box combat system to twine would greatly increase its appeal and usefulness to a lot I think.
Because RPG's generally entail visiting the same locations multiple times and killing the same monsters over and over (aka Grinding), I was wondering if the way the current Story Formats handle history (both story path taken and variable values) will cause a potential problem as the storage of this data (both in memory and on disk) gets larger and large the longer the player plays the RPG.
Ummm. You ever played a pencil and paper RPG? Endless grind has nothing what-so-ever to do with a proper RPG. It turns up in online MMO games because it takes a lot longer to create content that it does to play it and some players think they can get an advantage (cheat) buy exterminating whole races of weaker monsters so they can level up and tool up a bit before they go into the more difficult areas. I'd really like to see Twine start producing some proper RPG modules that focus on the story and the choices the player makes while playing it. Reusable basics are great - combat, maps, characters, alignment, magic - if they are used to produce interactive stories faster and to provide for a wider range of player actions. If all someone is aiming to do is to make a single player version of a ROM or a Diku, then you're missing the point (and may as well save yourself the hard work and just download one - most have OLE, so you can get straight into building your grind fest - CthulhuMud might be a good one to start with).
[Decode: ROM and Diku are MUD code bases. A MUD is a multi-user dungeon. They are text based versions of MMOs, and generally cater to <50 players per server (although with todays hardware that might be a good deal higher). OLE is online editing - the ability to edit the virtual world from inside it if you have appropriate authority. CthulhuMud is one of the last surviving mud and features a RoleMaster inspired skill system that lets you have level 300+ characters if you really want. I was it's main coder back in the late 1990's.]
To answer your question: I am in my late 40's so grew up playing the original DnD (Basic, Expert,Companion,& Master), Traveller and James Bond 007 RPG, and I have been a Games Master (Dungeon Master, whatever) for these and more, so I think I have some understanding about how paper based games work.
The one key difference between those and an IF RPG is that they are not static content. The GM has the ability to adapt the story/experience to suit the situation the player currently finds themselves in, which unfortunately an IF does not, no matter how much forethought and randomness the Author/Creator puts into it because of its pre-written state. (yes, I know modules are also pre-written but they are just guides and starting points for the GM to expand on)
As to MUDs, MUSHs and MOOs, my age and the fact that I have been coding since the end of the 70's means I was also around when they first became popular and I have been a Wizard, Liege Lord and Admin on a number of them and consider myself lucky that I was privileged enough to have a named character on LambdaMOO and to have developed code for MudOS.
I have been around as Greyelf in one form or another (RPGs, Compuserve, BBSs, MUDs, ARGs) for a long time, though this does not make my opinions on these subjects any more correct/important than anyone else so take what I have written with a gain of salt, as they are my opinions and they don't have to be yours. lol
[quote]The one key difference between those and an IF RPG is that they are not static content. The GM has the ability to adapt the story/experience to suit the situation the player currently finds themselves in, which unfortunately an IF does not, no matter how much forethought and randomness the Author/Creator puts into it because of its pre-written state. (yes, I know modules are also pre-written but they are just guides and starting points for the GM to expand on)
If IF, if it's written to a story, the story path is fairly fixed and the author is pretty much in control of the world and has already put in whatever hurdles the player may meet. Where things start to fall apart are when we start adding elements that give the player more options (adventure game like environments). These take control of the world away from the author but don't really give it to the player either. There needs to be some sort of medium where the player gets some control, but the author still retains enough control that they can keep the story both interesting and relevant. Did you try the first Duke Nuk'em 3D game - mid'90's? That was a pretty good balance of story vs freedom, as was Day of the Tentacle.
Did you try the first Duke Nuk'em 3D game - mid'90's? That was a pretty good balance of story vs freedom, as was Day of the Tentacle.
I'm currently in an airport lounge, so cant go into much details but I have played Duke Nuk'em 3D even though I'm not really a FPS player and it did have a good story as did System Shock and Deus Ex. I prefer Adventure games like Day of the Tentacle and the ones from Sierra and the like.
Comments
It can, but it wouldn't be the "right way." The big divide between the code in my example RPG and the unreleased full version is the use of arrays.
The full version of my RPG (in addition to sound effects, music, and commissioned artwork) makes heavy use of arrays both for inventory and monster/player turn sequence. However, while "mishandling" objects, I also was unintentionally exploiting a bug in 1.4.1 Sugarcane that allowed my code to seem to work in all tests, but was in some fashion broken. When I upgraded to SugarCube, my inventory and turn sequence arrays no longer worked at all. When 1.4.2 arrives, that code will no longer work there either, so there's no going back even if I wanted to do so.
The complexities of properly handling objects in arrays well enough to use for inventory and turn sequences isn't simple. TheMadExile, a programmer whose experienced eye found the issue in my code, has agreed to help me make the transition to JavaScript to pick up the broken pieces and rebuild my game. We've not yet began.
That said - whats the best way to assign passage navigation to these buttons? Do I need to make a new Direction passage for each page and call it every time?
Especially as the tool you are using is at its basic level a text based interactive fiction engine with no inherent knowledge or support for the types of thing commonly found within RPG, namely Actors, Location, Navigation, Inventory, Combat and Stats.
Because RPG's generally entail visiting the same locations multiple times and killing the same monsters over and over (aka Grinding), I was wondering if the way the current Story Formats handle history (both story path taken and variable values) will cause a potential problem as the storage of this data (both in memory and on disk) gets larger and large the longer the player plays the RPG.
I was also wondering if your efforts would be better spent making a new Story Format that natively understood the different things needed/required to create RPGs.
In theory, it could. In practice, it's probably unlikely to cause issues. If a particular game did run into trouble, disabling the history should solve the issue.
I think that's probably a given. For any, let's say, non-standard use of Twine, having a story format focused on the particulars of that use case would probably be beneficial to it.
[Decode: ROM and Diku are MUD code bases. A MUD is a multi-user dungeon. They are text based versions of MMOs, and generally cater to <50 players per server (although with todays hardware that might be a good deal higher). OLE is online editing - the ability to edit the virtual world from inside it if you have appropriate authority. CthulhuMud is one of the last surviving mud and features a RoleMaster inspired skill system that lets you have level 300+ characters if you really want. I was it's main coder back in the late 1990's.]
To answer your question:
I am in my late 40's so grew up playing the original DnD (Basic, Expert,Companion,& Master), Traveller and James Bond 007 RPG, and I have been a Games Master (Dungeon Master, whatever) for these and more, so I think I have some understanding about how paper based games work.
The one key difference between those and an IF RPG is that they are not static content. The GM has the ability to adapt the story/experience to suit the situation the player currently finds themselves in, which unfortunately an IF does not, no matter how much forethought and randomness the Author/Creator puts into it because of its pre-written state. (yes, I know modules are also pre-written but they are just guides and starting points for the GM to expand on)
As to MUDs, MUSHs and MOOs, my age and the fact that I have been coding since the end of the 70's means I was also around when they first became popular and I have been a Wizard, Liege Lord and Admin on a number of them and consider myself lucky that I was privileged enough to have a named character on LambdaMOO and to have developed code for MudOS.
I have been around as Greyelf in one form or another (RPGs, Compuserve, BBSs, MUDs, ARGs) for a long time, though this does not make my opinions on these subjects any more correct/important than anyone else so take what I have written with a gain of salt, as they are my opinions and they don't have to be yours. lol
[quote]The one key difference between those and an IF RPG is that they are not static content. The GM has the ability to adapt the story/experience to suit the situation the player currently finds themselves in, which unfortunately an IF does not, no matter how much forethought and randomness the Author/Creator puts into it because of its pre-written state. (yes, I know modules are also pre-written but they are just guides and starting points for the GM to expand on)
If IF, if it's written to a story, the story path is fairly fixed and the author is pretty much in control of the world and has already put in whatever hurdles the player may meet. Where things start to fall apart are when we start adding elements that give the player more options (adventure game like environments). These take control of the world away from the author but don't really give it to the player either. There needs to be some sort of medium where the player gets some control, but the author still retains enough control that they can keep the story both interesting and relevant. Did you try the first Duke Nuk'em 3D game - mid'90's? That was a pretty good balance of story vs freedom, as was Day of the Tentacle.
I'm currently in an airport lounge, so cant go into much details but I have played Duke Nuk'em 3D even though I'm not really a FPS player and it did have a good story as did System Shock and Deus Ex. I prefer Adventure games like Day of the Tentacle and the ones from Sierra and the like.