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Links to HAWT Porn and Erotica Inside!!! (Also, Forum Rules Discussion)
Greetings!
My name is Richard D. Sharpe. I'm thirty-two years old and have been a fan of "choose your own adventure" fiction since I first discovered the Lone Wolf game books while I was in the eighth grade. My favorite genre of fiction is swords-and-sorcery fantasy and I'm a big fan of tabletop role-playing games, such as Dungeons & Dragons, Pathfinder and GURPS. I've had a larger variety of professions than most, but among a forum of writers, my five years as a newspaper reporter (staff writer) is probably my most relevant. Currently, one of my friends (who is a lawyer) calls me "a man of leisure." However, I am a full-time college student seeking my masters degree in English.
I discovered Twine around the first of November, so I've had it nearly two months now. Yesterday was the first day I really tried to learn the basic fundamentals of CSS and how to use it to affect the appearance of my Twine game, the results of which culminated in a plain stylesheet. Before finding Twine, I had no experience with CSS at all. However, I could make basic HTML Web pages in Notepad back in the early 2000's. In 2011, I had fun playing around with creating a roguelike in Python and C#. I didn't get past making a basic IF in command line, but I had fun! Before that, I messed around with RPG Maker VX and VXA, the use of which which is based on Ruby like Twine is based on JavaScript.
Recently, I was assigned a janitorial position here at the new forums after I volunteered to clean up the thirty pages of spam that choked the Help sub-forum. Furthermore, Chris mentioned we need some form of community guidelines around here for when the trolls that lurk 'neath the bridge of the Internet wander nigh. So, I read up and collected a list of commonalities among all the forums I visit. He then made me a moderator and sent me out like a sheep among wolves holding my Magna Carta Libertatum in one hand, mop and bucket in the other.
Right now, we're just a small, tightly-knit community. There's no need for a sheriff or established law in a town this size. However, now's the time to open discussion about user agreements and community guidelines before we grow in size and begin seeing elements and aspects of a larger user base start to appear. Chris was adamant that we, the original and founding members of this community, should all have a strong voice in what those guidelines will be.
Chris and I both agreed that the official forums should be a place where people at work can visit. You know, during breaks and while compiling.
[quote=Chris Klimas]My feeling on it is that people should feel comfortable browsing the forum at work, but also be able to post links that are NSFW with an appropriate warning. I feel like profanity per se isn't as much of an issue-- mainly I could see it as coming up in titles of things, or quoting work. But I think these are all things everyone should have a chance to express an opinion about.
We also recognize that a great many Twine games center on erotica and that there are also a number of games that are downright pornography. Nothing wrong with that, but porn and erotica shouldn't be disseminated indiscriminately.
With that all in mind, Chris asked that we discuss how such material should be handled. We want to make sure there is a distinction between visual and written material and erotica and porn. We don't need to come up with a clearly-defined threshold for obscenity, something that the U.S. government has been unable to do. Nothing will be chiseled in stone. We just want some open discussion about the matter.
As for profanity, what we're really only concerned about is extreme cases. I'm afraid to place "excessive" immediately preceding it in the UA, because that's open to such a wide interpretation. "But, all I wrote was 'F--- That Stupid C--- in the A------" as a subject title. I don't see the problem." Of course, the community might decide that's not a problem. Otherwise, in that case, a friendly reminder not to use excessive amounts of profanity would be warranted. That's part of this thread's subject for discussion.
In that regard, here is my first draft of the user agreement. Don't burn it on principle.
[quote]User Agreement
By using these forums, you agree to abide by the following community guidelines:
[list type=decimal]
Treat others with kindness and respect. Follow the Golden Rule.
Do not make derogatory comments about others' race, gender, sexual preference, religion, ideologies, or political affiliation.
Do not spam the forum. No advertising, solicitation or commercial self promotion is allowed. Do not make repeated posts of the same nature or cross-post in multiple sub-forums.
Discussion of any illegal activities (for example, software piracy) is not allowed.
Pornography is not allowed. Written erotica should not be disseminated without a clear disclaimer.
Do not use profanity.
Do not post irrelevant comments; stay on topic.
Forum members may have only one account. Sockpuppeting is not allowed.
We reserve the right to make changes to these guidelines at any time without warning.
We reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason at any time without warning.
Those last two are just catch-alls. Chris has the right to do whatever he wants with his site, so it goes without saying anyway. We're all just his guests. But, there are cases of insidiousness that will be hard to define, so #10 is there as a warning that "But I didn't break the rules!" won't save the trolls.
Again, we, the core group of the Twine community, don't need to worry about any of this among one another as our membership now stands. We're all here because we enjoy Twine and like Twine games. We respect one another. We help one another.
However, that won't always be the case. There are a lot of people out there who don't like Twine or Twine authors. Furthermore, there are selfish, self-centered and childish people out there who don't care about Twine or the community; they will just blow through here for a quick answer or to hurl insults. When our membership reaches the thousands, there won't just be a careless and impolite minority among us, there will be malice.
None of us want that. Let's set some community guidelines and draft a user agreement now that will keep this community one we can all enjoy long into the future.
Thanks for your participation and support!
Sharpe
PS: I didn't lie in the subject title. I linked to both porn and erotica as promised.
My name is Richard D. Sharpe. I'm thirty-two years old and have been a fan of "choose your own adventure" fiction since I first discovered the Lone Wolf game books while I was in the eighth grade. My favorite genre of fiction is swords-and-sorcery fantasy and I'm a big fan of tabletop role-playing games, such as Dungeons & Dragons, Pathfinder and GURPS. I've had a larger variety of professions than most, but among a forum of writers, my five years as a newspaper reporter (staff writer) is probably my most relevant. Currently, one of my friends (who is a lawyer) calls me "a man of leisure." However, I am a full-time college student seeking my masters degree in English.
I discovered Twine around the first of November, so I've had it nearly two months now. Yesterday was the first day I really tried to learn the basic fundamentals of CSS and how to use it to affect the appearance of my Twine game, the results of which culminated in a plain stylesheet. Before finding Twine, I had no experience with CSS at all. However, I could make basic HTML Web pages in Notepad back in the early 2000's. In 2011, I had fun playing around with creating a roguelike in Python and C#. I didn't get past making a basic IF in command line, but I had fun! Before that, I messed around with RPG Maker VX and VXA, the use of which which is based on Ruby like Twine is based on JavaScript.
Recently, I was assigned a janitorial position here at the new forums after I volunteered to clean up the thirty pages of spam that choked the Help sub-forum. Furthermore, Chris mentioned we need some form of community guidelines around here for when the trolls that lurk 'neath the bridge of the Internet wander nigh. So, I read up and collected a list of commonalities among all the forums I visit. He then made me a moderator and sent me out like a sheep among wolves holding my Magna Carta Libertatum in one hand, mop and bucket in the other.
Right now, we're just a small, tightly-knit community. There's no need for a sheriff or established law in a town this size. However, now's the time to open discussion about user agreements and community guidelines before we grow in size and begin seeing elements and aspects of a larger user base start to appear. Chris was adamant that we, the original and founding members of this community, should all have a strong voice in what those guidelines will be.
Chris and I both agreed that the official forums should be a place where people at work can visit. You know, during breaks and while compiling.
[quote=Chris Klimas]My feeling on it is that people should feel comfortable browsing the forum at work, but also be able to post links that are NSFW with an appropriate warning. I feel like profanity per se isn't as much of an issue-- mainly I could see it as coming up in titles of things, or quoting work. But I think these are all things everyone should have a chance to express an opinion about.
We also recognize that a great many Twine games center on erotica and that there are also a number of games that are downright pornography. Nothing wrong with that, but porn and erotica shouldn't be disseminated indiscriminately.
With that all in mind, Chris asked that we discuss how such material should be handled. We want to make sure there is a distinction between visual and written material and erotica and porn. We don't need to come up with a clearly-defined threshold for obscenity, something that the U.S. government has been unable to do. Nothing will be chiseled in stone. We just want some open discussion about the matter.
As for profanity, what we're really only concerned about is extreme cases. I'm afraid to place "excessive" immediately preceding it in the UA, because that's open to such a wide interpretation. "But, all I wrote was 'F--- That Stupid C--- in the A------" as a subject title. I don't see the problem." Of course, the community might decide that's not a problem. Otherwise, in that case, a friendly reminder not to use excessive amounts of profanity would be warranted. That's part of this thread's subject for discussion.
In that regard, here is my first draft of the user agreement. Don't burn it on principle.
[quote]User Agreement
By using these forums, you agree to abide by the following community guidelines:
[list type=decimal]
Treat others with kindness and respect. Follow the Golden Rule.
Do not make derogatory comments about others' race, gender, sexual preference, religion, ideologies, or political affiliation.
Do not spam the forum. No advertising, solicitation or commercial self promotion is allowed. Do not make repeated posts of the same nature or cross-post in multiple sub-forums.
Discussion of any illegal activities (for example, software piracy) is not allowed.
Pornography is not allowed. Written erotica should not be disseminated without a clear disclaimer.
Do not use profanity.
Do not post irrelevant comments; stay on topic.
Forum members may have only one account. Sockpuppeting is not allowed.
We reserve the right to make changes to these guidelines at any time without warning.
We reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason at any time without warning.
Those last two are just catch-alls. Chris has the right to do whatever he wants with his site, so it goes without saying anyway. We're all just his guests. But, there are cases of insidiousness that will be hard to define, so #10 is there as a warning that "But I didn't break the rules!" won't save the trolls.
Again, we, the core group of the Twine community, don't need to worry about any of this among one another as our membership now stands. We're all here because we enjoy Twine and like Twine games. We respect one another. We help one another.
However, that won't always be the case. There are a lot of people out there who don't like Twine or Twine authors. Furthermore, there are selfish, self-centered and childish people out there who don't care about Twine or the community; they will just blow through here for a quick answer or to hurl insults. When our membership reaches the thousands, there won't just be a careless and impolite minority among us, there will be malice.
None of us want that. Let's set some community guidelines and draft a user agreement now that will keep this community one we can all enjoy long into the future.
Thanks for your participation and support!
Sharpe
PS: I didn't lie in the subject title. I linked to both porn and erotica as promised.
Comments
[quote]No advertising, solicitation or commercial self promotion is allowed
There are commercial Twine games already, and will likely be more. Having an approved way and place to share them might be a good idea.
[quote]Pornography is not allowed. Written erotica should not be disseminated without a clear disclaimer.
The typical solution is including NSFW in the subject line, and only allowing NSFW links and discussion inside threads tagged as such.
And as for porn/erotica distinction, well, have fun with that. I suspect my work falls on the verboten side, but I was not planning on sharing it here anyways.
I do not care about profanity.
[quote]
2. Do not make derogatory comments about others' race, gender, sexual preference, religion, ideologies, or political affiliation.
...
4. Discussion of any illegal activities (for example, software piracy) is not allowed.
Re: #2, I think it should be expanded or that there should be another entry after #2 and before #3, like "Do not make belittling comments towards other forum-goers."
Re: #4, I think this is worded too broadly. I think the intent of #4 is that no one use the forums as a means of furthering illegal activity--such as by posting links to bomb plans, or a torrent site, or whatever. However, it seems like we should be able to talk about illegal activity in the abstract. I don't think it would even make sense to talk about doing illegal activities oneself, but to not be able to even mention news or an opinion on various topics that involve the law seems silly. Like, for example, gay marriage is still not legal in the majority of US states. So...does that mean gay marriage is a verboten topic? Just food for thought/discussion.
I liked nomdepony's suggestion to allow commercial self-promotion is an approved way. I think it should only be allowed in the context of Twine games, and perhaps, if not a Twine game, then only in the off-topic forum with "SELF-PROMOTION" in the subject line.
I third nomdepony's and Chris' support of labeling posts with NSFW to allow some discussion of erotica/pornography or whatnot (I don't know what the "whatnot" would be, but yeah, whatnot).
I hear you. It's just gotta be there, man.
Good point. It's mainly the big anti-spam law, so it needs written in such a way that commercial Twine games are excluded. Or, really, to exclude just about anything related to this community. No Nike tennis shoes of Viagra, though.
Yeah, that's how it's done, isn't it. Hearing no objections, and the motion having a second below, it carries.
Like I say, we don't need to do what even the government doesn't and draw a line in the sand, erotica on this side, porn on the other. We're not doing that. Whatever it is, we'll have to deal with it on a case-by-case basis. We'll just have to use our discretionand from my experience, that would happen only after a complaint is made; I seriously doubt any team of moderators is going to act real proactively on this issue. ;D
I'm just saying that we don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The discussion is more about what the community wants done with all of it. Should we be like 17th Century Puritans over here with no erotica of any sort? Should there be wall-to-wall hardcore porno everywhere? Of course, we need a middle ground. Right now, here's the middle ground:
No porn.
No erotic pictures or pictures containing nudity.
Written erotica is fine with a [NSFW] tag on the thread title.
Does anyone want that line moved? If so, in what direction? Is written pornno matter how hardcore and pervertedfine with a NSFW title tag? We're not going to start dividing porn into categories. "Like, this is okay, but that's too far, man." No. It will be difficult enough to make the erotica/porn decision in the event of an issue.
Oh, sorry. You didn't get the memo? We drew the line for founding member a couple days before you registered. Sorry.
Here's Looper:
If #1 AND #2 doesn't get that point across, I don't think it could be done with ten rules.
Yeah, you're right. I'll amend it to be more clearly worded as you suggest.
So shall it be! The people have spoken! Let there be a [NSFW] tag on each thread containing that which is . . . not safe for work.
Thanks, guys!
However, what is the opinion about pictures in NSFW threads and games?
[quote]I got to thinking about it, and I don't know why I was so in favor of the idea to separate porn and erotica. Well, I know whyone of the forums I researched looking for rules made a big fuss about it. If we have the NSFW tag, then who really cares how "dirty" the writing is?
I would be fine with moving the line to allow discussing and linking to Twine porn as long as it was NSFW tagged. I mean, to be frank, the main twinery.org page randomly links to Twine games that probably fall under the 'porn' label sometimes. http://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=atcdouqd1kxyais5 for example.
[quote]However, what is the opinion about pictures in NSFW threads and games?
Keep them out, and make it clear that inserted images, such as that pouting Pinkie Pie, should be SFW. Someone can give a link to the image if someone really needs to reference a NSFW picture. I don't see a reason to have it otherwise, and good reasons to be strict about it. Shock images, for example,
Suppose we require every topic that has any content that would not be appropriate for work to have [NSFW] in the title. That much is fairly well common forum etiquette in most forums.
However, how about we also delineate erotica from pornography by the type of content that is included? For instance, A person that writes an erotica story in Twine and requires feedback could therefore put something like "[NSFW] "The Adventures of Digital Emmanuelle" (erotica)." Therefore, the writer explicitly tells us "There are some naughty words that your boss wouldn't approve of, but you're not going to see any images. Just text."
But with the new image function, it's entirely possible to have artwork or graphical depictions of sex in a Twine game. Such an endeavor could prompt the writer, looking for feedback to write the title as "[NSFW] "Give Me More!" (pornography)". Or, naturally "(porn)" would work just as well. That would tell the reader "Hey, I know this already deals with material that could get you fired, but there are also pictures and graphical representations in here that are of an adult nature."
Obviously, things like shock images, porn-hustlers paid on commission, and all-around smut peddlers have no place in a forum such as this.
We take only the most artistic of smut, thank you very much, in a dedicated, [NSFW] thread!
That's just my opinion.
I'm leaving this open for discussion for some time to make sure everyone who wants to offer an opinion gets a chance. Chris didn't set a deadline, but if this goes a week or so with no replies, we'll probably call it good.
Or, we just toss the whole thing out. It's up to you all.
As for the spam law, I don't think it would be a bad idea for anyone to seek permission from Chris before making commercial self promotions, even for Twine games. I know there's a big difference between mentioning one's game is on sale at example.com and dropping links in dozens of threads and starting "BUY MY GAME GUYS!!!" topics. However, asking permission is polite and putting it in the UA will help thwart unwanted problems before they happen. Just my opinion.
[quote]User Agreement
By using these forums, you agree to abide by the following community guidelines:
1. Treat others with kindness and respect and follow the Golden Rule.
2. Do not make derogatory comments about others' race, gender, sexual preference, religion, ideologies, or political affiliation.
3. Do not spam the forum.
[*]No solicitation or advertising of a commercial nature is allowed without permission from the forum administrator.
[*]Do not make repeated posts of the same nature or cross-post in multiple sub-forums.
[*]Do not post irrelevant comments; stay on topic.
4. Discussion in furtherance of any illegal activities (for example, software piracy, copyright infringement, etc.) is not allowed.
5. Images containing nudity are not allowed.
6. Written erotica should not be disseminated without clear disclaimer.
[*]Label any thread containing mature subject matters as not safe for work (usually by preceding the thread's subject title with "[NSFW]").
7. Do not use excessive profanity or profanity at all in subject titles. The content of threads marked NSFW are exempt.
8. Forum members may have only one account. Sockpuppeting is not allowed.
9. We reserve the right to make changes to these guidelines at any time without warning.
10. We reserve the right to ban anyone for any reason at any time without warning.
This is not the end of the discussion, of course, and we can always revise these guidelines as things evolve.